CITY OF LA HABRA HEIGHTS
MINUTES OF A SPECIAL MEETING OF
NOVEMBER 4, 2004
1. CALL MEETING TO ORDER
Mayor Borrowe called to order the Special Meeting of La Habra Heights City Council at 7:30 P.M. Thursday, November 4, 2004 in the Multi Purpose room at 1245 Hacienda Road.
2. ROLL CALL
Members present were: Mayor Borrowe, Mayor Pro Tem Douglas, Councilmembers Carroll, Klein and Millsap. Also present were City Attorney Levin, City Manager Hendrickson, Fire Chief Nielsen, Deputy Fire Chief Hyslop.
3. FLAG SALUTE
Mayor Borrowe led the flag salute.
Stephen Blagden, Citron Road, stated that he was still trying to understand tonightÕs proposal. Mr. Blagden explained that what he thought the paramedic program would consist of was that we would respond to each paramedic call as usual, but La Habra would no longer respond their paramedics. With our City providing the paramedics we would spend about $20,000 for equipment, respond as usual at a cost of about $200,000 more per year. Mr. Blagden noted that we presently respond to about 12 paramedic calls per month. To respond as we are already responding under the In-house Paramedic Program we will need two additional Fire Department staff members.
Mr. Blagden noted that it has to be considered how the paramedic unit will be replaced when needed. The figures should also take into consideration the annual inflation. Mr. Blagden also commented on the payment of the paramedics being more than the stipend paid to the regular firemen. This may affect the morale of those paid the stipend. He stated that he was concerned that the program only expects about 35% of the cost paid back. He asked that the proposed system be restructured and stated his opposition to using our reserves for this service.
John Beau complimented those who provided the material for tonightÕs meeting. He noted that he did have some questions on the material. Mr. Beau asked if the paramedics have some kind of continuing education program and if they do, who would pay for this. He also asked if the firemen have some academic courses that they have to complete before becoming firefighters. He asked if the firefighter/paramedics would have to go through the same training and who would pay for this. Mr. Beau stated that his opinion is that any paramedics need to be paid even if they are firefighters.
Mr. Beau stated that in his opinion some of the reserve money should be used before we initiate assessments on residents.
Mr. Beau commented that on the table of options for costs the City Manager should include in option 1 and option 3 the cost of the land.
Joe Kennedy, Pinto Drive, commented that we really need paramedics that are closer than La Habra. He stated that heart attacks need very quick response.
Ann Eaton, Hacienda Road, noted that the Fire Chief is very qualified for his job and he should know how to achieve good quality paramedics. She was concerned with the decisions made on how to spend the money the City has and at the same time possible assessment of the residents for the paramedic cost.
Norm Zezula, commented that he had not made up his mind on the Paramedic issue. He stated that he is inclined to go for the In-house Paramedics as he has a lot of confidence in the ability of our Fire Chief and the drivers would be more familiar with our roads. He stated that the one thing that concerns him about the In-house Program is that the City Manager commented in his memo that if we form our own service, and it does not work, he is not sure that we will have another chance to contract with La Habra.
4. DISCUSSION OF 10-YEAR FINANCIAL PROJECTIONS.
Staff has prepared several variations on scenarios of the CityÕs cash-flow projections dependant upon decisions made regarding new facilities and paramedic programs.
RECOMMENDATION: Direct staff in further analysis. Receive and file.
City Manager Hendrickson explained that the purpose of this presentation is to give an overview on some of the decisions that might be made tonight and how it could impact the long term financial situation in the City.
Freddie Vernon, Finance Officer, noted that the current condition is that our cost with La Habra for Paramedic Service has increased from $15,000 to $210,000 in this fiscal year.
He also noted that we must decide whether to build New Facilities or repair or replace Existing Facilities.
á Bond financing to build New Facilities – Annual payment of $120,000 – General Fund to pay 2/3, Fire Fund to pay 1/3.
He stated that we would sell the present facility and use some of that money to build a New Facility. We will have financed about half of the land cost.
á Annual payments of $55,000 for five years to pay for the balance of the land – paid by the General Fund.
á We will set aside $125,000 annually to pay for Fire Vehicle replacement, which will come out of the Fire Fund.
á Annual payments of $55,000 for 5 years to pay for the land – paid out of the General Fund.
This would probably be to provide something more permanent than Existing Facilities. The minimum cost of repair and upgrade would be $800,000 to $1,000,000.
á Sell land and apply equity in land to costs for the repair and replacement of Existing Facilities at present site.
á General Fund (2/3) and Fire Fund (1/3) will contribute a total of $200,000 to repair and replace Existing Facilities.
Mayor Borrowe asked what the $800,000-$1,000,000 was based on.
City Manager Hendrickson noted that this would be minimal as possible for repair and replacement and additional cover for the engines. This was an estimate and would provide facilities to last approximately 20 years. He added that in the original report the cost was approximately $3,000,000 and was for a more permanent and longer lasting facility.
Mayor Pro Tem Douglas asked what portion of the minimal cost would go for an adequate dormitory.
City Manager Hendrickson answered that it would be approximately $400,000 and would include both the dorm and covering for the engines. This would still be a minimalist approach and would not be much larger than it is now.
Mayor Pro Tem Douglas commented that he thinks we are overly optimistic on the cost of building and optimistic on what we could receive from sale of the land being purchased.
Mr. Vernon continued with the presentation.
á We would set aside $125,000 annually to pay for fire vehicle replacement from the Fire Fund. The rest of the money that is needed for vehicle replacement will have to be financed.
Mr. Vernon went into detail on each item of ÒAÓ and ÒBÓ.
Option A-1
á No paramedic services.
á General Fund should decrease by $500,000 to .76% of annual expenditures by 2015.
á Fire Fund expected to decrease by $110,000 to .47% of annual expenditures by 2015.
Option A-2
á Contract with La Habra – No additional revenues.
á General Fund should decrease by $2,904,834 to (.09) % of annual expenditures by 2015.
á Fire Fund expected to decrease by $110,000 to .47% of annual expenditures by
2015.
Option A-3
á In-house Paramedic – AMR fees and bill patients (Revenues).
á General Fund should decrease by $1,234,698 to .46% of annual expenditures by 2015.
á Fire Fund expected to decrease by $848,018 (.05) % of annual expenditures by 2015.
Option A-4
á Contract with La Habra and Paramedic Assessment.
á General Fund should decrease by $500,000 to .76% of annual expenditures by 2015.
á Fire Fund expected to decrease by $110,000 to .47% of annual expenditures by 2015.
Mr. Vernon explained that the reason these funds are decreasing is due to the cost of building.
Option A-5
á In-house Paramedics and Paramedic Assessment.
á General Fund should decrease by $500,000 to .76% of annual expenditures by 2015.
á Fire Fund expected to decrease by $110,000 to .47% of annual expenditures by 2015.
Option A-6
á In-house Paramedic and raise Fire Fee ($90,000).
á General Fund should decrease by $1,426,318 to .40% of annual expenditures by 2015.
á Fire Fund should decrease by $110,000 to .47% of annual expenditures by 2015.
Option B-1
á No Paramedic Services and Repair or Replacement of Facility.
á General Fund should increase by over $600,000 and would be 1.23% of annual expenditures by 2015.
á Fire Fund should increase by over $300,000 and would be .82% of annual expenditures by 2015.
Option B-2
á Contract with La Habra – no additional revenues.
á General Fund should decrease by $1,737,834 and would be .28% of annual expenditures by 2015.
á Fire Fund should decrease by $332,230 to .82% of annual expenditures by 2015.
Option B-3
á In-house Paramedic – AMR fees and bill patients (revenues).
We should receive about $35,000 in revenue.
á General Fund should decrease by $161,651 to .87% of annual expenditures by 2015.
á Fire Fund expected to decrease by $498,872 to .18% of annual expenditures by 2015.
Option B-4
á Contract with La Habra and Paramedic Assessment.
á General Fund should increase by $669,580 to 1.23% of annual expenditures by 2015.
á Fire Fund expected to increase by $332,230 to .82% of annual expenditures by 2015.
Option B-5
á In-house Paramedic and Paramedic Assessment.
á General Fund should increase by $669,580 to 1.23% of annual expenditures by 2015.
á Fire Fund expected to increase by $332,220 to .82% of annual expenditures by 2015.
Option B-6
á In-house Paramedic and raise Fire Fee ($90,000).
This would pay for half of the service.
á General Fund should decrease by $362,260 to .80% of annual expenditures by 2015.
á Fire Fund is expected to decrease by $332,230 to .82% of annual expenditures by 2015.
Councilmember Carroll asked the Finance Officer what the balance would be in both funds at the end of the ten years in the different options.
Freddie Vernon explained that at present we have $2.5 million in the General Fund (Reserve Fund) and $767,926 in the Fire Fund.
At the end of 10 years under Option A-1, the General Fund will have $2 million and the Fire Fund will have $713,833.
At the end of 10 years under Option A-2, the General Fund will have a negative ($258,000) and the Fire Fund will have $713,833.
At the end of 10 years under Option A-3, the General Fund will have $1.3 million and the Fire Fund will have a negative ($80,092).
At the end of 10 years under Option A-4, the General Fund will have $2 million and the Fire Fund will have $713,833.
At the end of 10 years under Option A-5, the General Fund will have $2 million and the Fire Fund will have $713,833.
At the end of 10 years under Option A-6, the General Fund will have $1.1 million and the Fire Fund will have $713,833.
Mayor Borrowe noted that in ten years the money would not be worth what it is at present.
Mr. Vernon explained that he had taken inflation into consideration in his figures.
Mr. Vernon continued with the figures for Option-B
At the end of 10 years under Option B-1, the General Fund will have $3.2 million and the Fire Fund will have $1.1 million.
At the end of 10 years under Option B-2, the General Fund will have $801,865 and the Fire Fund will have $1.1 million.
At the end of 10 years under Option B-3, the General Fund will have $2.3 million and the Fire Fund will have $269,054.
At the end of 10 years under Option B-4, the General Fund will have $3.2 million and the Fire Fund will have $1.1 million.
At the end of 10 years under Option B-5, the General Fund will have $3.2 million and the Fire Fund will have $1.1 million.
At the end of 10 years under Option B-6, the General Fund will have $2.1 million and the Fire Fund will have $1.1 million.
The Councilmembers discussed and clarified various items on the charts.
Mayor Borrowe commented that Option A includes building a Fire Station and City Hall at West Road and Hacienda Road and Option B does not and that there are many factors that could influence the figures in the report so it remains an estimate.
City Manager Hendrickson noted that for the report they have used $450 for the ÒFirst ResponderÓ fee. He stated that according to Whitman Enterprises (billing company) $450 is the highest amount any City bills.
Mayor Pro Tem Douglas stated that he would like to know how much Kaiser and Blue Cross pay for First Responder fees.
Councilmember Carroll reported that Fullerton charges $200 for BLS and $300 for ALS and collect between 50% and 68%.
City Attorney Levin stated that Medicare will not pay any ÒFirst ResponderÓ fee and insurance companies will only pay a few hundred. She noted that usually the higher the fee the more likely there will be a challenge.
Mayor Pro Tem Douglas noted that it was worth considering the level of challenge risk.
Fire Chief Nielsen commented that BLS is Basic Life Support (for non-life threatening service.) ALS is Advanced Life Support (for life threatening situations). ALS transport requires paramedics to go with the transport.
Councilmember Carroll offered a motion to receive and file the 10-year projections. The motion was seconded by Councilmember Millsap and approved as follows:
NOES: None
ABSENT: None
5. SELECT METHOD TO PROVIDE PARAMEDIC & AMBULANCE SERVICES IN LA HABRA HEIGHTS.
City Council shall consider options of either providing Paramedic/Ambulance services through contract with City of La Habra or other agency; creating In-house Paramedic Service and contract for Ambulance; or not providing Paramedic Service.
RECOMMENDATION: Direct staff in further analysis. Receive and file.
City Manager Hendrickson reported the history of why our contract had changed with the
City of La Habra for Paramedics and the cost increasing considerably, necessitating the decision on the Paramedic and Ambulance services. He noted that after consideration, the City of La Habra raised our cost from $10,000 per year to approximately $200,000. He stated that we then started to look at other possibilities.
Mr. Hendrickson stated that we looked into contracting with L.A. County for service from one of their stations, but they declined because their response time would not have been satisfactory. Their cost estimate would have been higher than with La Habra.
We looked into private Paramedics and Ambulance. That cost was approximately $350,000 per year. Mr. Hendrickson commented that the last thing considered was In-house Paramedics and noted four basic issues that need to be looked at.
1. Reliability of the program and its practitioners.
2. Certainty that the service will continue at the level expected and that the quality of service will not be diminished.
3. Response time in getting to the patient and in transporting that patient if necessary.
4. The cost of the service, now and into the foreseeable future.
He stated that the cost would be no better than what La Habra wants for a contract with them and noted that Fire Chief Nielsen thought that La HabraÕs paramedic service, with LA County if La Habra went with them, would be quite good. Mr. Hendrickson stated that with an In-house Program we would have more flexibility in billing and the response time should be faster. We would have more responsibility with the In-house Program. Our insurance rates should not change. Mr. Hendrickson felt that we would be able to get a permit to operate from the Department of Health.
Mr. Hendrickson explained that we have 45-50 qualified paramedic applicants and that the choice is up to the Council.
Councilmember Carroll asked Fire Chief Nielsen to answer some of the questions voiced by John Beau.
Chief Nielsen noted that each paramedic is required to participate in continued education. They must fulfill 48 hours every two (2) years in specified categories to continue their license. He stated that the paramedic pays for this education. He explained that arrangements have been made to have this education at La Habra Heights and taught by instructors who are included in the pool of paramedics interested in our program.
Councilmember Carroll asked if the Paramedic Unit includes two paramedics plus the responding unit.
Chief Nielsen answered in the affirmative and explained that he normally would not split the two paramedics and the Engine. If there were two calls at a time the paramedics would be split. This would be up to the Captain.
John Beau asked what kind of education the firefighters get in addition to the field training they get here.
Chief Nielsen answered that the average firefighter here goes through our Academy which is State fire training. A certain number of hours are required, but more and more firefighters have degrees they have sought while educating themselves, normally in Fire Science. They pay for their own courses.
City Manager Hendrickson explained that we have an agreement with a college that when the firefighters go through our Academy the college gives them credit for those classes. We are reimbursed for time spent at a rate of $2 per every $1 we spend.
Councilmember Carroll asked about Mr. KennedyÕs concern over the response time.
City Manager Hendrickson answered that Òin-houseÓ response time would be a little faster.
Mayor Pro Tem Douglas asked if there were any disaster rules for paramedics.
Chief Nielsen answered that there were rules, but if they were on duty here, he did not think they would have to leave and go to some other city. He stated that he did not know other Fire Department rules regarding whether they would have to remain with or return to their home station.
Chief Nielsen noted that there would be more responsibility with the In-house Program, but we are willing to take this on as it is for the benefit of the residents.
City Manager Hendrickson answered the previous question asked by John Beau that if In-house Paramedics did not work out, could we go back to a contract with La Habra, by reporting that he had talked to the City Manager of La Habra who was unable to answer for sure one way or the other. Mr. Hendrickson stated that La Habra still has not completed their contract with LA County.
Mayor Borrowe asked Chief Nielsen how quickly he could get an In-house Program up and working.
Mr. Nielsen stated that they are still waiting for permission from the Department of Health Services (DHS) that has to do with our radio communications. After receipt of the permit it will take approximately one (1) month.
The Council discussed the reasons that Paramedics are anxious to come here to work and their qualifications with Chief Nielsen.
Mr. Nielsen explained that he has had 45 Paramedic applicants and he has interviewed 31. Of those 31 applicants, 25 are already Paramedic/Firefighters, 6 are Paramedic only and would need Firefighter certification. Mr. Nielsen stated that the average Paramedic that he has interviewed is 29 years of age and has 3-13 years of Paramedic experience.
Councilmember Carroll asked if the 6 Paramedics that do not have their Firefighter certificate are allowed to work as a Firefighter.
Chief Nielsen answered in the negative. It will be the Captains responsibility to see that they do not until they are trained and certified. If the call is not for Paramedics they will stay behind.
Mayor Borrowe asked what happens if there is a staffing problem.
Chief Nielsen answered that in an emergency, we are allowed to split the two Paramedics and use only one. This has to be documented and DHS has to be notified so they can be sure that this is not happening every shift.
Mayor Borrowe asked if for some reason no Paramedic was available, could we call La Habra to step in.
Chief Nielsen answered that we do have a mutual agreement that would allow this if it is due to unavoidable circumstances. We will also honor the same agreement for La Habra.
The Council discussed the fact that the Fire Chief intends to pay the Paramedics approximately $8 per hour, while the Firefighters are not paid.
The Fire Chief stated that to his knowledge we have no concerns about this from the Firefighters.
Deputy Chief Hyslop commented that this has been discussed and he felt that there would probably be a list of Paramedics available and they could be called up if needed. He did not think there would be a significant morale issue. He noted that the Chief will be as fair as possible. Our department has a very good reputation.
Councilmember Carroll asked Deputy Chief Hyslop if he has any reservations about this program.
Deputy Chief Hyslop stated that the only concern he had was if neither paramedic showed up. He felt if there is a backup list that can be called, that would take care of the problem. However, anyone not showing up for their shift is compromising their professional career.
Councilmember Millsap stated that in her opinion the morale could go up if the response time is shorter due to an In-house Program.
Deputy Chief Hyslop stated that his confidence in service to his family would increase with the In-house Program. He also commented that because La Habra has a larger population they would more likely be tied up on a call of their own than we would.
Councilmember Carroll asked how the quality of care might be affected by the change from the contract with La Habra and an In-house Program.
Mr. Hyslop answered that he thought the quality of care from our own Paramedics would at least be as good as that coming from La Habra and it should even be a little better with Paramedics that are dedicated to our city. He stated that he did not know what the situation would be with LA County.
Mayor Pro Tem Douglas asked if we have 7 on a shift now, when we add the Paramedics will we have 9 or drop 2 of the Firefighters.
Chief Nielsen answered that we would have 9 and we have 10 spaces in the dormitory.
The consensus of the Council was to go with the In-house Program.
Mayor Borrowe offered a motion to continue with La Habra until we get permission and can set up our In-house Program. The motion was seconded by Mayor Pro Tem Douglas and approved as follows:
AYES: Borrowe, Carroll, Douglas, Klein and Millsap
NOES: None
ABSENT: None
6. AUTHORIZATION TO PLACE REVENUE MEASURE ON MARCH 2005 BALLOT TO FUND PARAMEDIC SERVICE.
With projected increases in Paramedic/Ambulance Service expected to increase to between $160,000-$215,000 per year, funding of service needs to be identified.
RECOMMENDATION: Direct City Manager to develop ballot measure for the City Council meeting of November 11, 2004; or direct creating alternate measures to pay for increased Paramedic Services.
City Manager Hendrickson reported that we can pay for the Paramedic Service either from the General Fund or we can discuss whether we want to place the matter on the ballot and have the people increase the amount that we authorize to collect for Paramedic and/or Fire. We would have to approve placing it on the ballot at the November 11, 2004 Council Meeting. We either amend our current Fire Fee to include a Life/Safety Tax or we go on the ballot with just a Paramedic Tax. Both require a 2/3 vote to pass. He stated that if amending the Fire Fee to include a Paramedic Tax did not pass, the Fire Fee would stay.
Mr. Hendrickson noted that we could raise the Fire Fee to pay for the time that the Paramedics are working as Firefighters, not Paramedics.
Mayor Pro Tem Douglas asked if the amount from billing happens to be more than we expected, could we lower the mechanism chosen the next year.
Mr. Hendrickson stated that we could lower or raise the mechanism as needed. We could only raise the fees within the Gann Limit.
City Attorney Levin stated that the amount could be accumulated as long as it is used for the purpose of the tax. If you have extra funds you could adjust the use of the tax as long as it stays within the stated purpose of the tax that generated the funds. The cost is difficult to assess.
Ms. Levin explained that the November 11 meeting is the deadline for getting a new tax on the ballot in March. The existing Fire Tax could be increased at any time by the automatic increases that are already within the Ordinance. It could also be placed on a Special Ballot. We could have an all Mail Ballot. The first opportunity to have an all Mail Ballot would be in August.
Mr. Hendrickson commented that they consulted on the Mail Ballot and were told that it would not save much cost to use this method.
Councilmember Millsap commented that if either scenario passed we would not see any money until January 2006.
Mr. Hendrickson noted that any funds that we are short would have to come out of the General Fund.
City Attorney Levin stated that a Mail Billing could be done by hand for the first billing and place it on the Tax Roll thereafter at the first opportunity.
Mayor Borrowe asked what would happen if neither scenario passed.
City Manager Hendrickson explained that the cost would come out of the General Fund except for those activities payable from the Fire Fund.
Councilmember Carroll stated that he is against asking the residents for a Paramedic Tax because at the end of 10 years the General Fund and the Fire Fund would end up with a large surplus if we asked the residents to vote for a Paramedic Tax. This is Option B 3 and 6, which remodels the Fire Station.
Councilmember Klein stated that the cost numbers on Option B are very low. He did not agree that we could remodel the station for $800,000. It would cost more.
Mayor Pro Tem Douglas stated that he was happier using reserve funds to buy capital assets rather than Òpay as you go serviceÓ out of reserves.
Mr. Hendrickson stated that one thing we could do is wait a year or two to see how much we are able to collect from Paramedic Services.
Mayor Borrowe commented that surpluses belong to the residents. He noted that the 10-year plan is based on estimates and he thought they needed more real figures. Then we can make adjustments at that time on real costs.
Katie Martin reminded everyone of what was spent on various projects. According to the budget, money comes into the General Fund and goes out and stays at about $2.5 million each year. She stated that in her opinion, safety should be of first concern.
John Beau stated that in his opinion $2.5 million reserve is a large amount of money for a city of this size.
City Manager Hendrickson explained that there are many funds and some of them have limits on how they can be used. He also agreed with Katie Martin that safety should be the first concern for the residents and the City Council.
Norm Zezula stated that he felt that it was wrong to mix the Paramedic issue with the building of the Facilities. He stated that he was against building up such large reserves. He stated that it allows the City to make major financial decisions without going to the residents. Our City was built on the premise of citizen participation in all decisions. He felt the decisions for building Facilities and where, should also be on the ballot.
Councilmember Millsap explained that she was glad they had a large surplus as a City needs things and that takes money. The Facilities need to be taken care of.
Councilmember Klein commented that the main Facilities are 50 years old, and the dormitory is a trailer that has already been remodeled and repaired and it was not meant to be permanent. Mr. Klein stated that in his opinion remodeling would not be a good use of the money. He stated that he would rather see the reserves used to build Facilities that would last for another 50 years and the present Facilities sold to provide part of the payment. He noted that he did not think the reserves should be used to provide the Paramedic Program. He thought that the choices should be placed on the ballot so the residents can choose. He also stated that he thought there should be a separate fund for the Paramedic Program.
Councilmember Klein explained that there is also $125,000 that needs to be put away each year to build up a fund to replace vehicles for the Fire Department. They are expected to last for 25 years, and they will not unless they are protected from the weather.
The Council continued to discuss whether the surplus should be used to build new Facilities or to fund the Paramedic Service cost.
City Manager Hendrickson explained that item 6 is on the Agenda for the regular Council meeting on November 11.
Mayor Borrowe offered a motion to not vote to place this on the ballot to increase the fees until we find out what our real costs are based on our significant surplus. The motion was seconded by Councilmember Carroll and approved as follows:
AYES: Borrowe, Carroll and Millsap
NOES: Douglas and Klein
ABSENT: None
City Attorney Levin explained that Item 6 is on the Agenda, November 11 and you have until then to place the matter on the ballot. You can also modify your Agenda. If three of you decide to take it off of that Agenda tonight, then tonightÕs vote would count.
Ms. Levin commented that the Council would have to decide on an amount next week if it is placed on the ballot. She also stated that if the Council needs any further information to make their decision staff must be informed.
Councilmember Millsap noted that she would be interested in having any additional information they might have on the cost for new facilities that is not available tonight.
7. FIRE AND CITY HALL FACILITY DEVELOPMENT.
Mayor Borrowe asked that Item 7 be continued to the November 11, 2004 Council Meeting and that it be the first item of consideration on the Agenda.
Mayor Borrowe adjourned the meeting at 11:50 P.M. to the Regular City Council meeting on November 11, 2004 at 7:30 P.M.
ATTEST:
___________________________________
CITY CLERK, JOHN F. HENDRICKSON